Yesterday I had to take my husband to the dentist for dental surgery. Long story short, the results were he has high blood pressure and the dentist “suggested” he get treated before he has a stroke. (Update he has since seen the Dr. and he wasn’t quite as worked up as the dentist…he put him on high blood pressure meds. but didn’t mention the stroke) As I ranted to him about him getting his act together, I realized he will do what he will do, I’m not his mother. This triggered my already exacerbated need to get my shit together. I know I should get off my ass and start my own exercise regiment that I’ve been putting off for 4 years since I recovered from my breast cancer and rehab and then shoulder surgery and rehab. How time flies while we’re procrastinating!
Everyday I say I’m going to get back on that horse and go back to yoga, but the horse looks too tall and scary! I’m afraid it’ll be too hard. I’m afraid they’ll hurt me. I’m afraid I won’t be able to do it. Wah, wah, wah. Suck it up buttercup….you won’t even know any of this unless you go! I know this intellectually, of course, but that doesn’t make it any easier to start the process……
So I immediately looked up mediation and yoga on the internet and found Dahn Yoga near me and thought I might have found the answer. When I got there and talked to John, a nice Korean man who told me I had come to the right place. Hmmmmm, he seemed pleasant enough, he made me a cup of hot tea, he held my hand and did a little pushing and prodding, (maybe reflexology?), then did a mini-massage on my shoulders which felt lovely. He had me fill out paper work and asked me to come back the next day for a class for $10 or I could join for $99/month or $299 for 3/mo. He was a little intense about the joining process especially since I had never even attended one class yet.
I was almost ready to go full speed ahead as I do with everything when a voice in my head said, “Evelyn….why don’t you Google this establishment and see what the WEB has to say about them!” And Boy, did I get an eyeful. It seems this Dahn Yoga “may” be a Cult-Like business that has been sued in wrongful death-suits that also tries to separate it’s members from their money. They have unusual practices by having their members hit themselves to get their blood flowing and stimulating their muscles……it’s a Korean type of yoga “different” from any other! They also seem to have expensive “retreats” where you may climb the ladder of devotee where measures of extremes are used, one being putting your head under water and holding your breath until right before you pass out among other things. I think I’ll pass! I guess it’s another case of if it sounds too good to be true it probably is….I thought I found it all – Yoga, T’ai Chi and Meditation rolled into one all in an hour and 1/2!
So my conundrum is do I go just to see how weird it is and write about it with experience or steer clear?
Let’s be sensible…..I just called and left “John” a message and said I would not be attending his class today at 9:30 am and I don’t know if I ever will be attending any classes. If I do he’ll see me when he sees me!
Check out the article in the Rolling Stone….2010…. RS 1098 – The Yoga Cult.
What do you think? Have you heard of them? Have you had any experiences like this?
© Evelyn Garone 3/13/13
Evie, I’ve been in Dahn Yoga for about 3 months. My wife has been attending 3 years. Neither of us has ever been pressured in any way that could be construed as being a cult. The exercises are wonderful and flowing with practice and excellent for both flexibility and calmness. If that sort of workout is all you want there is no harm. The center I attend has members from 40 to 70 years of age and some choose to attend workshops at extra cost and some do not. All are welcomed to exercise equally. As for the “beating themselves”, it is a benign form of gentle tapping on the lower abdomen to a count. The idea is to stimulate energy flow and the belief is that it is “ki” energy which follows the precepts of accupressure or even meditation. I have no idea if the leader is a fraud and I don’t intend to find out -it’s not what I get from the class. I believe the lawsuits against Dahn were later dismissed. Some of the accusations are leveled by Indian Yoga practitioners that object to the use of the term “yoga” by Dahn.
Looking at your site, I would conclude you are open to new ideas. And old ones since Dahn is 5000 years old. Your title uses the word “oracle’. I don’t happen to believe that makes you a cult leader but some could use something so simple to make that accusation on an unverified forum like the internet.
Hans….you made me laugh with your comment about my being “The Oracle” and quite rightly so… I’m sure some people think that is presumptuous of me, and I of course laugh as I meant this tongue in cheek! Anyway on to your wonderfully eloquent comment….I am so glad you felt free to comment here…..this is what I’ve always hoped for give and take…a discourse of information…..you are right about my being open-minded enough to listen. I am definitely rethinking the information in those WEB articles after reading your take on Dahn. How interesting. My girlfriend and I were just discussing and ruminating about it…wondering if all the centers were the same, thinking that they being franchises it probably depends on who runs your center as to how it is actually run. I am so happy for you that you are happy there. I have had different experiences at different yoga centers, it all depends on what you are looking for, ie. exercise or a more spiritual experience. What I am looking for at this time in my life is gentle yoga, a more flowing and calming experience exactly what you are speaking of…..perhaps I should give the Dahn center a chance?! See for myself…I may have been too quick to judgement, I may have been too easily swayed by negative publicity that is too easily slammed on the WEB in this day and age! We are all a little gun shy, knowing there are evil people out there and don’t want to get involved but perhaps that stops us from finding good opportunities, too? Thank you for sharing your happy experience, I do appreciate it. Evie
Maybe you should talk to this person. http://morganalyx.wordpress.com/2012/08/03/my-cult-experience/
Thank you for sharing…….very interesting story….so as I said it depends on the branch of Dahn yoga you go to! Evie
I just recently finished writing a book that deals in part with my seven year intensive involvement with Dahn and my eventual “retirement” from my position as a personal assistant to the masters. what I know is that the exercises, practices, and healing treatments are profoundly effective in releasing stress and healing the whole person. Many of the Korean and American masters are wonderful, compassionate people. AND Dahn is a cult. There is no question. Do many Dahn centers use coercive techniques to get members and potential members to buy increasingly costly classes and workshops and retreats? Yes. AND a person who simply takes the two or three classes a week with a one or three month membership and steadfastly refuses to do more or pay more for anything will benefit from the deep relaxation, release of stagnant energy and healing of the body and mind. Both sides of this practice and organization exist.
People who want to know more about my and my experiences can go to
I just completed an evaluation at Dhan Yoga you posted in your picture on Friday. After what I thought was a decent session, I was told about two workshops and a 1-year membership that would be good for me. The woman I worked with was very nice but it was hard to understand her English at times. She kept explaining to me that this was the fastest way to open myself up and begin to heal. I agreed to attend the two workshops and signed up for a 1-year membership. It wasn’t until after I signed the contract that I found out the first workshop was two days long and would begin the next day. I told her my schedule was tight on such short notice. She kept saying, “You want to help yourself, right?” I told her I would clear my schedule for the weekend and then she told me that the workshop is located in Northbrook. I immediately said I would not travel to Northbrook. She pushed very hard to get me to go. She even suggested I car pool with someone if I am afraid of driving on the highway. I explained the reason I came to this location was to support a local business in my community and will not have the time to travel to other locations. I asked her if the workshops will be offered at this location and she said no. She then went into how I could have private sessions with her but they would cost extra. I stopped her right there and said I want a refund for the workshops. She tried to keep me in the workshops stating I wouldn’t get to the level of health I want to achieve unless I attend them. After standing my ground, she did refund my money for the two workshops ($480). Once this was done and I had my refund receipt in hand, she then flipped over the corner of my contract and had me initial the three back pages. I should have known better. When I came home I read the entire contract. Nothing in it seemed out of the ordinary to me. I then went back online to see if I would find anything about this particular business and after moving beyond all the positive Yelp reviews, I found all the information about Dhan Yoga possibly being a cult. I’m not going to lie; this information scared the hell out of me. I tried to find comments that negated the cult accusations, but they are few and far between. That is when I stumbled across your blog. I reread my contact and it states “The Regular Group Class fees will be fully refunded with or without cause if a refund is received within the 30 Day Period.” I’m seriously considering canceling my year long membership because of how she handled herself and am worried about all that I have read. All I want is a local place to learn the basics of yoga to help me improve my health. I don’t want to teach yoga. I am not looking for spiritual beliefs outside of my own church. I just want to bring good health and tranquility into my life.
Needless to say, I left a message with them an hour ago but they have not returned my call. Since they are closed on Sunday, I think I will go in Monday during my first orientation and personally cancel my 1- year membership. Please let me know if you find another local yoga business that is true to helping the clients relax and achieve inner peace and good health.
Wow, I am sorry about your experience with Dahn. If you’ve read the comments it seems that it might depend on THE Dahn yoga franchise you go to how they represent themselves and how they approach you. I thought that I did go to a different Dahn that has since closed and thought the guy was too serious about my overall “health” as your women was….I found it questionable at the time.
Fast-forward to a few months ago when I visited the next studio and kind of forgot that past visit…..time passes and my memory isn’t everything I wish it was. You’ve read my take they seemed okay this time but I didn’t go forward with the “free” class after reading all the bad press.
I seem to be on the same search as you to find the perfect “thing” for me. I have decided that it is T’ai Chi not necessarily yoga presently for me. So I have started the search on-line to check out T’ai Chi studios and/or Dojos that teach and practice T’ai Chi. I have a feeling this search is going to prove harder than I anticipated. I live in a suburb of Phoenix, called Ahwatukee and we don’t have that much available right in my area so I am casting a wider net.
I’m finding in my practice and search through out Phoenix that the Eastern philosophies when brought to the West can be bastardized and commercialized so the search for the perfect fit is harder than people think if they want more than exercise from the practice of either yoga or T’ai Chi. A lot of the yoga studios have mainstreamed and changed the fundamentals of yoga and it is now yoga “flow” and such which is not what it was originally all about. I have found that the practice of t’ai chi calms my mind and I love that about it.
I have been practicing yoga and t’ai chi at the YMCA but want more serious practice and more fundamental and in-depth teaching than the once-a-week classes they have. I really want to immerse myself in the practice because from what I’ve experienced just from these classes, I love it! Yoga too is wonderful when taught by the right instructor, but that too needs to be at a place that hasn’t watered it down to simply exercise.
If I can be of any more help to you let me know…….thank you for reading and commenting and I wish you nothing but the best!
I was a Dahn Healer, and left the group feeling very confused. The “Masters” know how to push for more money and classes masterfully. This is a Big Business, not a small yoga studio. This is a Cult. After leaving the Center I had to learn what a Cult was to recover from the mental abuse this group subjects it’s clients too. You are told what is wrong with you and why you need their help. Believe me, nothing is wrong with you, or me. We were born the way we are for a reason. We are all ok without Dahn. Don’t join any center, you don’t want to have to go what I went thru.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I’m happy to get first hand experienced people’s comments who were subjected to Dahn’s unfortunate Cult Business. Thank you. I’m sorry for your experience but happy you got out! Thank you for sharing your experience here for my readers! Too bad these people are bad. You are correct we are all okay and do not need them to help us…I won’t be going there any time soon! Evie
I attend this yoga studio. I have been going for six months. I have lost 30 pounds and was able to stop taking medications for depression and anxiety.
The stuff on the Internet is hogwash. The law suites were all dismissed. There is a cultural difference that comes across really pushy, but like anything take what you want and leave the rest. You are missing out on great exercise in an accepting environment
Leslie, I’m so happy you are happy with your Dahn yoga experience. I have moved on and am pursuing other avenues. If you’ve read the comments on my blog I have received both pro and con on the “Cult” aspect of Dahn, so as I’ve stated, I think it depends on your studio itself. I would suggest not getting too deeply involved in their extracurricular activities and paid courses, as this may be where the “cultish” problems stem from. I wish you all the happiness on your journey! Evie
Leslie, I couldn’t agree with you more! I love Dahn Yoga and it has worked wonders for me. Yes, some of the Masters can be quite pushy but whether they are pushy or laid back, they all seem to genuinely want to help and heal. It is a for-profit corporation so they do utilize effective marketing techniques to get people to open their wallets, but it’s still up to the individual to decide what they want out of it. The irony is that all the teachings focus on internal as well as external strength so if you are a good student, you should be able to easily overcome any attempts at manipulation. The suits and accusations about coercion only prove that the student wasn’t paying attention. 🙂
My Mom has been attending Dahn yoga classes for over a year. I’ve joined her once in awhile. I may be wrong, but I think the cult like accusations are a bit exaggerated. My Mom enjoys the daily exercise and it helps her heath a lot. The pressure to join the expensive sessions are no different than if you are asked to buy a maintenance contract of your TV or PC at best buy or office depot. You can easily decline and stand your ground. However if you one to become a dahn yoga master, then you have to go the route of expensive sessions, but that’s for folks who want to become “professional” dahn yoga masters.
Thanks for your comment. I’m glad your Mom is happy with Dahn….Evie
I was a Dahn Master and was going for high-priced trainings in Sedona almost every other month for over a year. This is DEFINITELY a cult. Meaning:; Brain-washing: They yell at you, constrict you, make you believe they you need them, pressure you into raising your credit limit to pay for incredibly high-priced trainings and if you don’t you will not complete your soul. Money: They pressure you to give them ALL of your money and they will “take care of you.” Literally. This is cult by very definition. I never felt so squashed in my life. It is Korean based and they are tough on you. It is true that at least one or two people have died during their trainings. And another suicide occurred after returning from a training. His parents barely recognized him. He was like a robot. I oftened called those who were “all-in” Dahn Robots. They simply suck the soul right out of you. It’s true that the exercises are good, but the business is BAD and they are big business – hard core ! Ill Chi Lee has incredibly priced mansions all over the world, a private jet, and drives gas-guzzlings autos when he promotes becoming an “Earth Citizen.” He is also a very angry guy. His temper is out of control. I have seen him come down on people as if he were going to kill. The Koreans don’t dare look him in the eye. And they pass that along to their Masters and the Masters pass it along to their members. It is truly a horrible place for any weak-hearted person to enter the doors of. I knew all along that I had one foot in and one foot out. I took trainings that were good for me and then ran for my very life. Some aren’t so lucky and I feel very bad for them.
AS WELL, when you’re a member, you HAVE to (yes, it’s like being in jail) post positive reviews all over the internet in order to fight back the negative reviews, of which there are many. When I look on Yelp I recognize ALL the reviews as being authored by Dahn Masters of the highest order. They don’t even attend those studios.
I could say much more. Just RUN before you’ve spend your entire retirement. I spent about $200,000 before I got out.
Thanks for this blog.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Wow this is a powerful comment. I’m glad you got out! I never did go for the class. The more I’ve heard about DAHN the more I question their motives. Thank you for sharing your experience and I’m sorry it turned out that way for yoy. I’m glad you are okay today, though it is unfortunate you’ve spent your savings. People should be aware of what they are getting into before they attend and I’ve tried to share what I know here with this blog……thanks for your intelligent informative comment, I hope you help some people before they get too involved! Evie
I’m just fine. I’m just so happy that you put this blog up and that it is a blog of honesty. You yourself are a neutral observer, which is good. The Dahn organization spends tons of time fighting off the negative I-net input because of the deaths and suicides related to their organization so its hard to find the truth. And if you post anything anywhere, Yelp, etc, they come out en masse to shut it down. They are a slippery bunch. And claim to be all about saving your soul. How tricky is that? Anyway, I’m great! I’m working as a spiritual guide and I am i FREEDOM!
LikeLiked by 1 person
Well, good for you! I’m glad you’re well. It’s a shame that there are such slippery, evil souls out there preying on “innocents” who feel they need such guidance! What do you do as a spiritual guide?
I really hope you are recovering from the hell like trauma.
Please nurture yourself well,
When our soul is weak, demon catches very quickly.
If your conscious is clear, it is not difficult to know about this D yoga.
It is a lot more than Yoga/exercise.
Means, don’ t take a chance to sell your soul. don’t choose to become a slave of Cult.
So called masters or instructors, they wear mask, the smile is not from their heart. I felt right away.
When will their greed end? Universe is watching.
thank you – luckily i have a very good connection with the universe and am guided well. I got out. I felt my soul being squeezed and NOBODY squeezes my soul! I am doing better that better I AM GREAT !
thanks so much for your comments. I take them to my heart ! ❤
I did not get deeply enough into Dahn Yoga to observe the upper eschelon, but I have seen things that make me very suspicious.
At first I loved going to classes and loved the healing sessions. I hated the workshops and the constant pushing for you to pay for more workshops. If you didn’t want to go to the workshops you were told to look inside yourself and see why you were resisting. If you said you did not want to spend the money you were told that with positive thinking money would come to you.
The founder of Dahn Yoga seems to give orders that all of the Dahn Masters follow. Once there was a campaigne to put Ilchi Lee’s book, “Call of Sedona” on the New York Time’s best seller list. Dahn Yoga members were pushed to buy several of these books. What do you know – the book made it to #2 on the Paperback, Advice & Misc. list (see http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/ilchi-lees-the-call-of-sedona-becomes-a-new-york-times-best-seller-139813093.html).
Lee also claims in one of his books that as a child he walked on snow without leaving footprints.
I was asked to volunteer to recruit other members and when I said I was uncomfortable with this I was told I was being selfish.
They tell you that you can heal yourself using their methods. They have claimed that members have made miraculous recoveries. I have seen members give testimonials saying they freed themselves from mental illness an were able to get off medication by using Dahn’s methods. I started to believe I had the power to heal depression on my own and stopped taking my antidepressants. Six months later I had a terrible relapse. It has taken several months to stabalize my mood. This was the last straw for me and I left 2 weeks ago.
Yes, they did a GREAT deal of scheming to get their book to #1 on NYT best seller’s list. I actually bought 1,000 books out of my own pocket on that day to push it up myself. In the area I live in they had ALL Dahn Masters buy MANY books on a certain day of the month when they knew the NYT was counting how many books were being sold.
The other things you talk about is simply part of their brain-washing. The stories are always the same. It’s brain-washing. Simply put.
Glad you got out before you spent your life savings.
Thanks again for this blog. They put a ton of effort into getting rid of any I-net negativity down. It’s another of their tactics because there used to be tons of negativity out there on the I-net.
In fact in order to become a Dahn Master (master of what?) you HAD to do this I-net work.
Definitely a cult.
I’m glad you are back on your meds. and doing well. I’m glad you realized what you were up against and got out. Good luck to you and stay well. Evie
I had planned to go to a first class this morning at the Dahn Yoga center in Tempe. I paid $15 for an introductory session with John and saw him yesterday for one hour. He seems very nice and sincere and I appreciated the time he spent with me. However, I am on a fixed retirement income and the prices are a bit high for me. I can see the value of the body work that is offered. If any of the above comments are true about the negative business aspects, it seems like a tragedy to me that something so wholesome and good for people would be ruined by greed and cause harm to people. From a spiritual aspect, this would be a profoundly bad cause to make. I live in Ahwatukee and found your blog quite by chance.
I guess I would suggest you go to the one class and make up your own mind. Don’t invest any of your hard earned money until you are sure it’s a sound investment. I’ve heard comments from both sides and I’ve chosen not to get involved but you are a grown adult with your own opinions and intelligence to make your own decisions..what is your gut telling you? Evie good luck either way with your future endeavors!😊
Hi Evie, thanks for your reply. My gut told me not to invest my money. Regarding your search, there is a great Yoga studio called “Spirit of Yoga at 1420 E. Southern Avenue, Tempe, 480-567-0695, http://www.MySpiritofYoga.com. They are next to Sweet Tomatoes. It is run under the Southwest Institute for Healing Arts (SWIHA) which has an excellent reputation as a holistic healing college, and they are very ethical and have very good instructors. I’ve taken 3 sessions there. They have different styles of yoga. I met a SWIHA yoga student who highly recommended “Spirit of Yoga”.
Valerie Peters (V. Peters)
Valerie……Good for you. I’m so happy you came to your “spirit’s” decision! Thank you for sharing an ethical and holistically-minded yoga studio. I will try to check it out as soon as I can. Take care of yourself and drop me a note once in a while to let me know how you are :)…Light and Love Evie
I would agree with the people who say this is a cult. It is hard to explain unless you experience it, but they are definitely a cult. I went for a few weeks and had spent a lot of money for a membership. I found out that two other people I knew had also gone for a while. When they told me of their experiences, I was very disturbed. Also, there is a hierarchy of workshops to get to different levels. You were only allowed to go to Sedona when your teacher thought you were ready. People coming back from that workshop were not allowed to talk about what happened there. I never thought I would ever come in contact with a cult, but when I examined the behaviors of the people in charge, the brain washing I saw, I never went back and didn’t even want to go near them or talk to them so I left behind probably $600-800. The two other people I spoke to in other states had also left suddenly and left a lot of money behind because they just wanted to get away. A third person that stayed has stopped working to devote more time to dahn yoga and spent over $10,000 with them. This was at yet a fourth center. It is really a shame that entities like this are allowed to exist.
Dale…….I’m so sorry to hear of your experience, though I am happy to hear you were strong enough to get OUT! Good for you! Good luck in the future, stay strong…as I believe we all go through things for a reason and I’m sure you learned life lessons that made you stronger. Sometimes we wish we didn’t have to, but it’s all for some cosmic reason….Evie
One of the problems is that they work SO hard and so effectively to keep their bad press off the I-net. They have one high level member working full-time doing I-net work and it is a MUST for all Dahn Masters to put in a certain amount of hours during each day to do the same and they are NOT being paid. Dahn Yoga is making tons of money and they pay people nothing. When I brought up during one of their trainings why it cost so much the trainer first got mad at me and then settled down and said “because we have no sponsors.” I gave her an example of somebody else who was doing the same kind of training for $10 per session and she said “That’s impossible” End of conversation. I don’t know how this blog stays alive. How they haven’t gotten to you yet. But good for you ! I just wish there were a way for you to reach more people.
Well, it’s just little ole’ me writing a blog! I guess that’s how it stays alive. Thanks for all the people willing to read and comment honestly! Evie
I am a former Master of Dahn Yoga and have to agree with many of the statements left here both positive and negative. Is the program a great program for people needing to recover health and wellness. I would say absolutely! The things I learned about energy- how it works in the body and feeling it were priceless. However as with any spiritual practice the meshing of business and spirituality does not really work once you start to move up the echelon. First, the higher ups are very fixed in there ways. The majority of older masters came from Korea where they had their own already established business model. It does not really mesh well with American Culture. Basically the model is sell through pushiness because Dahn has everything the soul needs its just the buyer is not necessarily aware of it yet. Additionally, there was too much emphasis on getting things done without the proper knowledge of how to do things. There is a belief that as long as there is will and power one should go full steam ahead the way the Dahn corporation wants you to go in order to get things done. Regardless of how effective it is. For example, I have been out at 11:00 pm at night leaving brochures on peoples houses in order to create good energy, when all I could hope is that I didn’t get shot. What about regard for my safety?
Additionally, if the center is failing it is viewed continually as the person who is running the center’s fault for not putting in enough energy of effort (not doing enough to create a good reality) , not a woefully lacking business model. I honestly feel that the people who work at these centers do their best and are trying to be as genuine and open as possible with what they have been given, which is not much. This is ridiculous in the 21st century. I can’t help but feel that the system fails because of a lack of flexibility and understanding as well as a proper training infrastructure in business management. Experience on the fly is supposed to be enough to guide you when running a business with them, not actual one on one training. Plus people in the Dahn Community especially the masters have a way of looking at things that does not necessarily mesh with normal people rationale.
All in all is the Dahn Center a fun and happy place to recover health and wellness? Absolutely, I would even recommend the basic program and maybe a few extra trainings. But do it after thought and reflection and because you truly want to. Not because of pushing and urging- even the sincerest kind.
Take this for what it is………
yea i ran a center for a while which got robbed and it was my fault. My energy. It was always my fault if things went bad, but there was never any praise for anything good because of this and this is foundational to the Korean spiritual practice: Chopping the ego. This is Eastern philosophy and that is OLD. We have evolved from East to West. Since I left Dahn I felt such freedom and learned, for one thing, that the practices that bring people to perfect health, as the poster above talks about, are being done all over the place. The only thing Ilchi Lee even claims to do differently is Brain Wave Vibration, which puts you in a state of Joy and is a spiritual practice, not about energy or body health. Chopping the ego is paramount in this organization and it is one of the ways they control people, literally squeeze the soul right out of you. Another big problem, because people find their health problems do go away and they believe they can find this only at Dahn centers, they THINK they NEED to be there. Combine these two: Chopping the ego (control) and people thinking that they need Dahn for their health (fear) – BANG you’ve got them! People are actually afraid to leave. I’ve known people TRY to leave, as if in an abusive marriage and they just can’t get out. It is very very sad and it took me much longer than it should have. But i did it (just like I eventually got out of my own abusive marriage, after 13 long years). Do you see the pattern for me? jumped from one abuse into another.
Thank you again for this fabulous blog xoxo
I recently joined Dahn Yoga and I have to say that I enjoy how I feel when I do the practices of stretching and meditation. I attended Shim Sung workshop and did think ‘I want to become a Dahn Master’ and am currently paid to go in July. However, there was another workshop (yesterday) that I did feel some pressure to attend. I told them I could not attend because of financial (not true- I just feel I’ve spent enough money on this) reasons and they dropped the price to a nominal fee. I attended and felt it was total crap! Except for one of the tai chi exercises the workshop was a bunch of hog wash and I feel bad for anyone who paid full price. The most disturbing part of the workshop was that during the meditation process they told us to keep our eyes closed and focus on the bright light in our minds – then they began flashing a strobe light at us. After the strobe lights they had us open our eyes and focus on the ceiling where they were displaying a sort of colored lights show. It fet strange and sort of “mind controlling” I am still within the 30 day reimbursement and plan on requesting a refund for the membership and Sedona training. Whether they return my $ or not I just don’t feel comfortable attending the training in Sedona after everything I have read. I feel sad because I was very excited about this process. I also feel some shame about this – ‘I of all people should know better of course!” Thank you for posting this! I am on my way to the gym for spin and a “normal” yoga class.
Please don’t feel ashamed. If you’ve read my post, i spent at least $200,000 for their trainings. I feel no shame. Don’t know why but I don’t. It was a lesson well learned and I’m just happy I got out. Some people SIMPLY CANNOT LEAVE! Good luck getting your money back. And here is a little tip. They owed me, after I decided to leave, $7000. They wouldn’t pay me and gave all kinds of excuses. This organization does NOT give money back, they give you alternatives. So this is what I told them because this is what they fear most: “If you don’t refund me by the end of the week I will spread this BAD NEWS across Facebook, Twitter, etc, etc, and I have a LOT of Friends” I had my money back within days. They really fear Bad Internet exposure because there is so much of it. FYI. And please do NOT take the Master training, it’s just more mind-control.
I agree with Julie you have nothing to feel ashamed of…you were taken advantage of by people who prey on people using mind control when you were only looking for peace, meditation & t’ai chi. You GOT out…thank the Goddess! Move on with your life having learned an important lesson…the world is not always a nice place and people can be evil! Good luck from here on out! Evie
LGG, Will you please call me at this number? I am a television reporter doing a story on Dahn yoga. I am looking for people who have had experiences there. Thank you!
Linda….it was a pleasure speaking with you today. Please get back to me and let me know what you do with the story as you move forward. Evie
I am so glad people are writing about their experiences on this blog. I wrote a review after I decided to stop attending Dahn Yoga. I am a great reader I have been reading since I was 2 and 1/2 years old. So my first exposure to Dahn Yoga wa throught Ilchi Lee was through his books. One of the Masters of the local Dahn Yoga Studio was at the Health Foods Stores with this instrument that you out your hands on and it showed the colors of the aura and I think that he was supposed to give you suggestions to help you based on a later experience with it. My reading was all violet and he just said I was very mental and that I think a lot.
I actually did not go to the studio until a few years after this initial contact. I went and I really loved the exercise it really made a difference in how I felt and in my strength and flexibility. I really liked the two men working there who were Masters though I never called them that or really got into using the Korean words we were supposing to be using spelled out in the rules they gave us when we joined the studio.
The. two men at the Dahn Studio weren’t really hard sell people but I spent money. They told us about the workshops but did not but put undue pressure on us to attend. I did spend some money on books and a few little workshops that the two men gave and they were helpful. Then shortly after I joined the studio Ilchi Lee came to town and they gave me a complimentary ticket to attend. Ilchi Lee came into the room with his helpers and a congressional representative. I don’t remember at this time who it was, but she spoke to the group. The film they showed had some work with Native kids on the brain wave work that supposedly really helped them. There were other things that really made this seem like a useful and legitimate practice.
I then paid to attend a meeting he had with the people of Dahn Yoga. I attended and everyone was dressed in white tops, I stood out like a sore thumb. But they assured me it was ok. The evening was interesting, but I was really concerned at how Ilchi Lee was treated and at his statement that all we had to do was think of him and he would send us energy.
But obviously, I was not concerned enough and I continued at Dahn Yoga. I expressed my concern about Illchi Lee’s statement to one of the men at the studio. I cannot remember what he said to me about it. Right after Iichi Lee came to town they replaced the white Grand Master Lady with a Korean Woman. I had decided to attend a shim sung at that time which I paid for and attended. The Korean Woman taught this workshop we were told that we could not share with the others what happened in this workshop.
The workshop seemed to be a huge challenge to my endurance and I was so,happy to make it through and that besides the exercises we did left me quite euphoric. But at the end I was pulled out of it by what I felt was a recruitment spiel by the Korean Lady. I left uneasy but I had promised to attend the follow up workshop a few days later.
At the follow workshop the recruitment was out and front. She gave us examples of her own teaching in a Korean Park for a year when she first started at the orders of her Master. From the way she talked I was led to believe that we were to give the same obedience to our Masters. She related the 100th monkey story and we said that with all of us teaching this we could reach a critical mass that would shift the conscience of mankind and heal the earth. She also told us that we had brought a lot of energy in during the Shim Sung and if we did not do the things she was telling us that this energy would contract and our true selfs would die (which she had inferred during the workshop was our souls). At this point my BS detector was headed off the scale. While I totally believe we affect each other in this world and that we can change things by changing our mind — I don’t believe that their way is The way and certainly not the only way.
After this follow up was over and I was still hoping that I wasn’t seeing and hearing what I thought I was — she came up and put her arm through mine. I had stupidly agreed to go to Sedona at the end of the Shim Sung in my euphoric mood. So she said she was going to have me sign the paper work right the and that she would be checking with my Master to see if I had paid, which was several thousand dollars She then walked me to a list of workshops and said she wanted me to take this other workshop for a thousand dollars.
She took me out and pushed me at the person she said was my Master and had him dod the paper work I stupidly signed but refused to sign up for the 1000 dollar work shop that she said I promised to take. Anyway I got out of there and left for vacation. When I returned I got my paperwork back and said I was leaving. They had already replaced the person who was supposedly my master with a Korean man. They called me and asked me why I quit and I said because I want to and checked to make sure they did not have my credit card on file. I left 1000 dollars spent in all but it could have been much more. Can you believe this was after only 2.5 months in the organization.
Hmmmmmmm….interesting and yet scary, glad you got out and your bs meter was working! Evie
Sorry I made a lot of mistakes. I typed this with my iPad. I should have used my computer.
I understand…….thank for rereading….can you edit? Perhaps that would make you feel better? Thanks for reading and comment…..Evie
Thank you, I don’t see an edit function.
Oh…too bad, I can as the writer. Whoops, then I guess. 🙂
I have a story about dahn yoga….and it was the weirdest experience ever!! I was having troubles with sleep over the summer and someone recommended dahn yoga. For some reason, the name ringed a bell, because I majored in cultural anthropology in my undergrad studies. I decided to check it out because the first class was free for perspective clients. Upon entering, the lady gave me a cup of tea and showed me a book about healing and finding my center etc. I started the class and had to beat the shit out of my stomach….where my internal insides hurt for an entire week. Then we had to say things in Korean, which I didn’t even know what we were saying. A lady next to me was making sexual moaning noises and at the end….we all sat down in a circle and talked about what we liked about today’s class. Immediately….I remembered watching a segment about a lady leaving dahn yoga because it was a cult and I couldn’t agree more. I’m very open to different things, but I’m also observant and this group is the epitamy of a cult. The lady harassed me on the phone the next few days for me to join. First she said I could only pay for the big package of monthly membership….then she changed it to where I can buy a punch card. I finally ended up blocking her on my phone. Healing….the sun…the stars….whatever shit they say to wheel you into their program is the biggest crock of shit. Be aware and stay the hell away.
Thank you for sharing your take on Dahn Yoga……we all appreciate it!
It seems like the lawsuits against have had little effect on Dahns business practices. They still make many false claims about how Dahn Yoga can heal almost any ailment, They do real damage to people’s health with these claims. I hope for the sake of the masters (who work long hours for very little money) and the members (who are manipulated into spending too much money on useless workshops) that Dahn Yoga will be shut down. Has anyone heard if there are any new suits being filed against them?
It’s been a while since I wrote this blog, and frankly I haven’t checked….suffice it to say, it’s probably better to stay away and not need to file lawsuits. If we keep getting the word out and people read it, perhaps they won’t fall into their trap!?
I am glad in 2015 Ilchi’s organization finally removed “dahn” and “yoga” from it’s branding (now it’s called Body and Brain), because it is neither dahn nor yoga.
It is not dahn, because it has no root to traditional Korean dahn. The only exposure to dahn Ilchi had was brief couple of weeks studying Guk Sun Do, which IS based on traditional Korean dahn study. Ilchi’s training does not have any root or lineage to speak of to call it based on 5K year old Korean tradition.
It is not a yoga for the same reason.
The core of Ilchi’s brain wave vibration is shaking head vigorously which is potentially dangerous practice that can lead to axonal shearing. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffuse_axonal_injury ). Just by this fact alone, Ilchi is one of the worst cult leader and enemy to humanity. I can add his lies on his credentials, etc, but I guess it’s an old new by now. Everyone with a half brain left the organization and the organization shrinking rapidly.
Thanks for your comment….
You are so wrong about Dahn yoga. There do nothing like you said at all . If I had not found out about Dahn yoga . I do not know where I be today. I have PTSD. Yes they are a business to. But they really want to help people like me , other suffering from so many other things. They are kind, loving people. It is not just a job for them , it is their calling in life to help people. No business can servive without offering other services, they never push. You are so very wrong.
If you read what I said…I asked If they are a cult. I said I wasn’t sure, The people who wrote in wrote what they thought. I’m glad you have found what you are happy with. As stated..I think you can find different things at different centers. Be happy and enjoy your life!
I wanted to share my experience with Dahn.
Body and Brain Yoga, formally known as Dahn Yoga, is a very well structured cult. While their practice encompasses various Eastern esoteric exercises, not one of them are strictly their own; copied from many different sources, Tao principles, Chan Buddhism, Japanese martial arts, etc. There are some benefits to the practice. They made it very simple so just about anyone can start training their body, mind, and spirit. Also the exercises does make one feel good as it is mainly focused on grounding one’s energy although any exercise will make you feel good if you didn’t have regular exercises before. However, that is where the benefits end.
I started B&B Yoga back in August, 2015. I had just experienced a spiritual awakening on my own outside of any spiritual or religious background in July, 2015. I immersed very rapidly once I got started as B&B gave me simple tools to advance and strengthen my spiritual needs. But soon realized how rudimentary the practice was. Many of its principles came natural to me. They were basic knowledge for anyone that had any spiritual background. That is when hard sales pitch and push started. I was promised more knowledge and higher training if only I attended various workshops, some at the local centers, and some were national trainings in Sedona, Arizona. Which I gladly accepted as I thought this will help me grow. I attended multiple classes a day and many of the local workshops. Then I was asked to take national workshops in Sedona. And these didn’t come cheap. I was initially signed up two workshops, Solar Body Healing Course (SBHC) and Brain Management Training (BMT), together the cost was $5,000. I gathered all my credit card to pay for them as I was being convinced by the regional manager and trainer Eunice that this cost is for my own growth and education. Not even a week after I’ve decided to take these two courses, Eunice once again approached me about taking another workshop, Dahn Master Course (DMC), cost $10,000. I was told that if I took all three courses together, I will receive major discount, total cost of $11,900 for all three. As I told her I don’t have any more money, she started to ask me if I can borrow from family or friends. She was very insistent that I ask around for money. When I told her no, she said she can arrange a monthly payment plan for me. Which I eventually agreed for monthly payment of $485 until the balance is paid off, convincing myself that it was necessary for my own spiritual growth.
I attended SBHC and BMT in early November, 2015. The workshops were devastatingly disappointing. First of all, I was told to purchase various items that were necessary for the workshops. However none of them were used. Very deceptive and shoddy practice to sell merchandise. Second, there was no new principles or exercises I learned. Third, I witnessed the mind altering brain washing process. Loud music, frantic dancing, and zealous body movements to lead people into trance like altered consciousness then they bombard members with subliminal and suggestive guided meditation in which they introduce worshipping of their founder Ilchi Lee. This became very obvious in BMT with multiple introduction videos about Ilchi Lee and constant talk of how “amazing” he is for creating this practice for all the members yet they don’t talk about how much money he makes from the members. Lastly, half the workshops were commercial for other workshops they offer, franchising information, and product demos. It felt like sitting at a Time Share presentation. It’s worth mentioning that the lead instructor, Master Jay seemed very depressed and confused about what he is doing. He hates himself for brain washing members but he is extremely talented at it. This was another issue. None of the masters seemed sure about the practice. All of them seemed to have mixed feelings about the it. One of them, a master with more than 25 years of training in the organization, told me that people don’t need to take all these workshop and it is just waste of money. After consulting with many fellow members about my concern, I realized that there is something really wrong with this organization. But it wasn’t until I came back from Sedona I realized the true depth of horrors and deception of this practice.
First thing Eunice asked of me after I just got back from Sedona was whether if I can pay for the DMC in full that day. I was really disheartened and taken aback by her. She didn’t care how my experiences were. I started going to regular classes less and less and I decided to do research into this organization. Fortunately for me, I am fluent in Korean. Instead of English search, I decided to look at Korean websites for more information. These are some of the findings I thought were worth sharing. Most information is shared by former masters and individuals who worked closely with founder Ilchi Lee and the organization. The information is in Korean but if you can, I strongly encourage you to take a look at this website and maybe Google can somewhat translate for you.
1. B&B franchise is known as Dahn World in Korea. They are the number one complaints of fraud and being a cult.
2. There are some 60 or more sub organizations and institutes in Korea and internationally operated by Ilchi Lee which he launders his money. He is suspected to be worth billions but no one knows for sure how much. These include many different types of Chan Buddhism institutes, Tao fellowships, HSP brands, brain education institutes and miscellaneous unidentified organizations.
3. One of the biggest sister organizations of Dahn in U.S. is Earth Citizens Organization in which Ilchi Lee is the chairman. While they are supposedly trying to help environment, they have not made any significant donation to any cause as of yet.
4. Dahn has more than 30 years of history. They say they are promoting the ideology of benefitting all beings on Earth yet only thing they have been doing all these years is growing themselves in size. They haven’t been behind any worthwhile cause. All talk, no action. Just collecting money from its members for themselves only.
5. All the workshops are set up to mass produce center masters (jidojas), or franchise owners as they are critical in group’s ability to grow larger in size. This helps recruiting new members which equals more money for the organization.
6. While Ilchi Lee has claimed that he is not religious and Dahn is not a religion, he himself has been registered as Chan Buddhist Institute since 2004 in Korea receiving tax benefits.
7. They take advantage of members who are vulnerable, weak, and fearful. They seem very nice, kind, and warm at first glance, but as soon as you are out of money and you are no use to them, they will cut you out cold hearted. When you first join the practice, they may give you aura readings or other consultation in which they boast you to feel special. They may tell you things like you were meant to be a spiritual leader and that you should become jidoja.
8. Jidojas or center masters are taught to use their sexual energy when interacting with members. Especially, male masters are instructed to be very affectionate with excessive touching and hugging interacting with female members. This creates general attraction towards the masters from members and they are more easily convinced to pay for workshops and make donations.
9. Many male masters use this ability to seduce female members to sexual relationships. Dahn has been heart break of many unsuspecting families. Adultery and sexual harassment is very common place in Dahn. There is ongoing joke among Dahn masters; this is not Dahn World, this is Sex World, or Sexual Harassment World.
10. Ilchi Lee is obsessed with money more than anything. He has many houses and properties in Korea, US, and Japan. He has personal jets, yachts, limos, Hummers. Many of the properties are under his families and relatives.
11. Ilchi Lee is addicted to sex. He’s had so many sex scandals since early 90’s. His favorite line to female students is “your mouth has the most acupressure points. Suck on my fingers, I will give you some energy”. He’s known to invite young female students to his private room for personal trainings as young as 14 years old. He has frequent sexual relationships with many female students. He is surrounded by ongoing, nonstop sex scandals even now.
12. Ilchi Lee is big fan of gambling. He has a private residence in Las Vegas and he visits quite frequently. He’s known to waste several millions of dollars in a single night. He is loyalty and VIP at many of the Vegas casinos.
13. He is a complete glutton. He eats 4-6 big meals a day and is suffering from diabetes and obesity. He has stopped doing any of his exercises many years ago. He can’t even walk without his walking stick anymore. He doesn’t practice what he preaches but he plays golf and horseback riding. He can’t even take care of his body, how can he help the world and people?
14. Ilchi Lee has exalted himself into a “divine being”. He calls himself the Heaven. He calls his lectures Heaven’s Landing. His lectures are basic information rehashed and repeated from the same information available everywhere. He has to be bowed and worshipped before he comes out and speaks to his followers. He has created a division between himself and fellow human beings.
15. They control their members through fear. They say that the world is coming to an end in 2020 so we should dedicate ourselves and our money to reach an enlightenment now. They prey on innocent people who really want to make a change in the world and help themselves.
16. Jidojas are slaving their lives away with almost no pay while Ilchi makes more than double the money of 3000 or so jidojas throughout his organization each year. Jidojas live away from their families and friends in a dorm with other masters. They spend ungodly hours working. It’s depressing, inhumane environment. There are handful of cases where these jidojas committed suicides.
17. Ilchi has been arrested for fraud, misrepresentation, false advertisement, falsification of legal documents, and reporting manufactured sales and tax information multiple occasions. They have been reporting that they are making profits but in actuality, they are losing so much members these days. They are expected to close up to 70% of centers in Korea and U.S. He has made a claim that he was one of the chosen 50 spiritual leaders by U.N. which was complete lie and was arrested by Korean government for misrepresentation. And he called it the “day that went against the Heaven”.
After finding more about the organization, on December 21, I met with Eunice and talked about my findings and concerns. When I told her that I was concerned that this is a cult, she didn’t even deny it. She said, “Yeah we are that kind of organization. So what of it?” There was no shame or guilt from her cold eyes. Baffled by her reaction, I just told her that I’m not going to attend any more workshops and that I am finished with the practice completely. Then she tried to convince me that there is no other practice like Dahn. I told her actually, you’ve copied from other practices without giving them credit and that I can go learn from somewhere else the same exact principles and exercises without going bankrupt. At that moment she just completely cut me out and told me to get out. I asked about how can I get my money back and they were going to call me about how in couple days. However, as of today January 2, 2016, they have not made any attempt to communicate with me about refund.
While Dahn promotes wonderful message of hope and harmonious world, the organization itself is extremely corrupt and evil. In that core is Ilchi Lee who is worshipped by these blinded masters and members follow without questioning. Don’t trust the center masters. They may be good people but they also can’t see beyond the illusions created by Ilchi Lee. When you step back and look with objective eyes, it become very clear. Look deep and wide and see it for what it truly is. There is no singular truth or ideology to enlightenment. There are as many doors to enlightenment as there are people in this Earth. Take a step back and free yourself from these restrictions and limitations. In the end, I’m not here to change anyone’s mind. I only want to share my view of the practice. You don’t have to believe what I say. I want people to question everything and make that choice from their heart and soul. If you truly believe that Dahn or B&B yoga is the way you’ve chosen to grow your spirituality, then that is perfectly fine. But there is a beautiful world out there and real growth comes from researching and applying yourself in your life, not hiding behind a safety of an ideology of a cult leader.
The following is an excerpt from the book “Captive Hearts, Captive minds”, by Madeline Tobias and
Janja Lalich adapted from information compiled by Dr. Micheal Langone.
Checklist of Cult Characteristics
“Comparing the following statements to the group with which you or a family member or loved one is involved may help you determine if this involvement is cause for concern. If you check any of these items as characteristic of the group in question, and particularly if you check many of them you may well be dealing with a cult and should critically examine the group and its relationship to you or your loved one.
1) The group is focused on a living leader to whom members display excessively zealous, unquestioning commitment.
2) The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members and/or making money.
3) Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged.
4) Mind-numbing techniques (for example: meditation, chanting, denunciation sessions, or debilitating work routines) are used to suppress members’ doubts.
5) The group’s leadership dictates how members should think, act, and feel (for example: members must get permission from leaders to date, change jobs, or get married;) leaders may determine types of clothes to wear, where to live, how to discipline children, and so forth.
6) The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, it’s leader(s), and members (for example: the leader is considered the Messiah or an avatar; the group and/or the leader has a special mission to save humanity).
7) The group has a polarized we-they mentality that causes conflict with the wider society.
8) The group’s leader is not accountable to any authorities (as are, for example, military commanders and ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream denominations).
9) The group teaches or implies that its “superior” ends justify means that members would have
considered unethical before joining the group (for example: collecting money for bogus charities).
10) The group’s leadership induces guilt feelings in members in order to control then
11) Members’subservience to the group causes them to give up previous personal goals and interests while devoting inordinate amounts of time to the groups.”
12) Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.
These are some of the vital information I felt like needed to be shared. Here are some links to other sources you should look into.
Thank you for sharing this info!
I realized not long ago that I have actually flirted with Dahn Yoga. I knew about yoga but not much… joined this center that opened close to my house. The people were super friendly and I had an instant group of friends. Then they started asking me to come on retreats for $250 per week-end. I was lucky enough to be a poor student so I had to refuse. The $100/month membership was all I could spare. They also had weird practices during class where they would make you keep your legs up in weird, exhausting positions for long periods of time. When you started shaking from being tired they would say it was blockages in your meridians… weird, I thought it was just that I didn’t have very developped leg muscles…. I had a busy life and didn’t go to yoga more than a couple times a week. I eventually got a tearful call telling me that the yoga studio was going out of business and closing and that was that. Later on I started hearing about various yoga poses which I was never exposed to in Dahn yoga (not even downward facing dog!!), so I did some online digging, only to realize that I closely escaped getting wrapped up in a CULT! Looking back it all makes sense, there were so many weird and questionable moments, but they are so welcoming and seemed so sure of their practices that it makes you wonder if you aren’t too close minded. So there’s my experience in a nutshell.
Thank you for input..
I am very happy I ran across this blog! I was introduced to B&B at a festival and was lured in by the $5 aura photo reading. I then signed up for a $15 healing and analysis intro session. I must admit it was a great session. I am an energy worker myself so I know “something” happened. I was intrigued as I’ve been seeking more mind, body, spirit activities. I was given the pitch and nearly signed up for a 3 month commitment which included unlimited classes and a workshop about finding myself, which the “master” felt would be best for me. Luckily I trust my intuition and pressed to see what they offered for a month trial. I still wasn’t sure exactly what a class consisted of. I signed up for a $120 one month trial session.
Last night I attended my orientation and what they called a wooden pillow class. I was looking forward to it as I was having some neck pain. At my orientation I was introduced to the Korean words they use, which I immediately butchered with my English speaking self. I was also told I need to call the teachers “Master”. This sent up a big red flag. I was then instructed on the belly pounding exercises others talked about. I felt uncomfortable and then in full out pain after several mins of this. I was told my homework was to do this every day. ( I had visions of my treadmill covered in clothes in the corner of my bedroom) People then started entering the room for the class that was going to start. I was given the phallic looking stick with handles to start ramming into my belly button while bouncing my body. Since I regularly work with chakras, I know this is your power center, so I could understand why they focused on it, but physically sticking this object in it? It started to get painful and crampy. I was also very aware of the slippery floor, it’s bouncy too and you are required to wear socks. As a part time Yogi I am used to doing work on a mat in my bare feet. All the slipping around and belly button thrusting made me tense.
Luckily we were instructed to stop the thrusting and grab the wooden pillow. This is a half cylinder object covered in plastic wrap( I guess for germs?) We started off rolling parts of our feet around it, then progressed to standing on it. These exercises switched between feeling good and being extremely painful. Standing on the small thing I suddenly felt like I was in a Survivor challenge on tv. As the class progressed we were instructed to lay on the thing, on our bellies then moving along the back and neck. Again a combination of extreme pain and glory. Like others experienced, there were people in the class releasing loud ecstatic moans, which made me feel like I was intruding on their “private time”. The class ended with a nice relaxation then we were invited to lobby for tea. It was a nice close to the class and while I appreciated the ritual of it we were also told about the upcoming events we should attend, which after reading more about this place today I see how it starts…….
I do feel there are benefits to the exercises they teach and the healing session I received seemed legit, but looking that ala carte cost of it I wouldn’t get another. After googling this place and their founder( which I should have done before I even invested the $120!) I am grateful I listened to my intuition and will attend a few more classes during my month trial but that will be it for me.
Thank you for sharing this info. I have NEVER gone back…I’m glad you followed your instincts…Take Care!
LikeLiked by 1 person
I’ve been debating whether or not I should finish out my month.. I feel I’m smart enough not agree to investing anymore money but maybe I should RUN while I can.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I agree….maybe you should just skip…but you learned a lesson $120 lesson!
LikeLiked by 1 person
I have a loved one immersed in this group who I am deeply deeply worried about. Could you please tell me anything else you know? There is lots of information out there online but it’s all from America and I’m struggling to find out anything about the UK. Anyone out there a past U.K. Member? Or anyone know the names of the websites that The Masters use that are not available to general members. I do hope you can help,